A post earlier this week by Catherine P. Taylor on MediaPost generated a lot of conversation, some a bit semantic and academic, but some very interesting. The post was a (not very positive) review of MyStarbucksIdea.com, a fairly new site wherein Starbucks customers can submit ideas and have others vote and comment on them. If you’re familiar with Digg, imagine that except every story is about Starbucks.
The key tenant behind Cathy’s criticism I think can be summed up largely in this quote from the article:
My Starbucks Idea doesn’t do much to connect Starbucks loyalists — or even haters — to each other. In fact, somehow, even though it solicits ideas and feedback from consumers, the site feels like it’s much more about Starbucks than the people who go there…. Allowing Starbucks consumers to connect with one another is a missed (or maybe future) opportunity.
This got me thinking about the nature of community, something that is talked a lot about in the social media and marketing spaces. In one of the comments to Cathy’s article, Shel Holtz states that he believes “there’s no need to undertake a discussion on the definitions of these terms. Believe me, that debate is fully joined in plenty of other places.” That said, I’m going to allow myself the conceit of opening up another front in that debate here with my “community”.
Let’s take the MyStarbucksIdea example as a starting place. Can a community exist around one focused goal, such as providing and sharing feedback on a company’s services? Does that make a board of directors, or an annual general meeting, a community too?
I did a little Googling to try and find appropriate definitions of community that go beyond the Oxford basics and found an interesting blog post going back 3 years by Jennifer Rice on the BrandShift blog. Jennifer quotes from Jake McKee at the Community Guy blog and his definition of community.
A group of people who form relationships over time by interacting regularly around shared experiences, which are of interest to all of them for varying individual reasons.
Jennifer goes on to agree mostly with this definition, but adds:
But I’m not sure if I agree with the qualification that it’s about relationships developed over time. For example, I write a blog post that generates discussion: readers make comments on both my post and on other readers’ comments. I’ve formed a community, but it will only last a day… 2 days if we’re lucky.
A tool that I often to use when trying to define something very broad is to determine what it ISN’T. I think this is the information architect in me. It’s often easy to put everything into every bucket, and say that nothing is unimportant, but that’s not usually helpful at the end of the day in figuring out what is in or out of a particular navigation scheme, for example.
It seems that there are three essential elements that would each require some minimal level to achieve a community:
- Purpose – Do a bunch of people milling about randomly in Dundas Square constitute a community? Probably not. Do a bunch of people gathered in Dundas Square to see a concert or attend a rally constitute a community? Probably. What’s the minimum purpose required?
- Length of time – Is there a minimum length of engagement required for a community to form? If I’m standing in a shop line-up for 3 minutes and get to chatting about the weather with the people there, are we a community?
- Depth of relationships – Does community require that the relationships formed have some level of depth? Is it a community if I don’t know your name? Where you are from? That you just zombie bit your cousin’s ex-girlfriend’s old roommate’s boss on Facebook?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this – what ISN’T a community?
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7 users responded in this post
Jay,
Interesting post it seems to me that the web has redefined what a community is and isn’t. On the web you could know someone but never meet them in person and still be a part of the same community. For example I call in and leave a comment on C.C Chapman’s podcast Managing the Gray, he responds back to me in the same podcast we now have a connection in the same community but have never met in person. yet I still feel I am part of that community. But what about the listener that doesn’t call in, the lurker as Mitch Joel and Joseph Jaffe refer to them, are they still part of the Managing The Gray community? I think they are. So then a community can have members that don’t participate or communicate with each other so no relationship is formed except perhaps with the host of the podcast in this case. This is very different than relationships and communities off line.
Really good point Bobby, although I don’t know if what we might call “extended communities” are strictly an online phenomenon either. For example, are Bob Dylan fans a community? They certainly don’t all know each other, but I’m sure they feel they have a “relationship” through how they feel about Bob Dylan’s music, the same way we might about C.C.’s podcast even if we don’t know C.C. or each other. And if two big Bob Dylan fans meet and start talking about Bob Dylan, it immediately connects them in what I think is a similar way. Is that community or is it something different?
That is true but an online community may not necessarily have a relationship at all and still be a part of a community, as in your reply example above but that is very different from Jake McKee’s definition in your post.
Right, but that’s kind of the question… do the two of us listening to C.C. or listening to Dylan make us part of the same community even if we don’t have any other relationship? I _think_ by McKee’s definition you’d say no on both counts, but I’m not sure.
Jay,
A very intriguing question and post. For good or bad, I believe MyStarbucksIdea is a community (based on your definition as well - yes, on purpsoe, yes on length and depth of engagement - an average regular Starbucks drinkers visits 20 times amonth in an offline world) although rallying around the brand and a narrow -purpose of generating new ideas.
One of the big questions that also gets brought up about this subject - is how connected do members need to be with each other to be considered a community - typically, in a brand community - there is relationship between 1) a brand and its members/customers, b) the hope would be that it connects members to prospective members (word of mouth) but how often does c) connecting members/customers to each other become the objective and to what degree (does it allow forums, can people socially network or is it more two-way dialogue and content exchange with the company).
The connection between people a very interesting question, one I’ve been thinking about a lot.
For example, when I was a kid I loved Rush. (I still love Rush BTW, new live album dropped this week, oh YEAH baby! Ah-hem, sorry…) Now, I had a couple of buddies who also loved Rush so occasionally we would hang out an listen to Rush together and play air guitar and stuff, and once every two years when they would tour we would hang out with 15,000 other people who loved Rush for a few hours at the concert and burn our fingers holding up our lighters during “Closer To The Heart” and all that sort of crazy nonsense. But I never really thought about being part of a “community” of Rush fans, particularly — I was just a guy who loved Rush.
Now, if I was really into it today, I suppose I could participate in Rush online forums, join Facebook fan groups, whatever, but I don’t. It doesn’t make me feel less connected to the “brand” of Rush ‘cus I still consume the products they put out.
Am I part of a Rush “community”? Does it matter? I’m not sure…
[…] What ISN’T a Community? - Media Driving with Jay Moonah Continuing the ongoing discussion about the definition of “community”, this post looks to definition by asking “What ISN’T community?” […]
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